Introduction
Doug Mark: Welcome to The Training Effect, the podcast show where we uncover how learning systems and training drive business success. I’m your host, Doug Mark. And today I’m joined by one of the most influential voices in franchising, Faizun Kamal, CEO of Strategic Franchise Growth Advisory at the Franchise Pros. Faizun is a Forbes coach, a bestselling author, keynote speaker, and was named one of the top 100 influential women in franchising. Her work’s all about helping franchisors and franchisees grow with intention. And today we’re gonna dive into the core principles of Faizun Kamal franchise success strategies to see what sustainable growth really looks like and why training plays a key role. So, Faizun, welcome to the show.
Faizun Kamal: Doug, it is lovely to be here with you. Thank you.
Why This Matters
In today’s hyper-competitive market, achieving sustainable franchise success requires moving past the dangerous myth of “hands-off” passive income. Whether you are an emerging franchisor looking to scale your brand infrastructure safely or a prospective franchisee navigating the complex due diligence and validation phase, understanding the delicate balance between operational consistency and independent ownership is critical.
This deep dive tackles the shifting landscape of private equity in franchising, the realities of early-stage growth risks, and why continuous, scalable training strategies are the ultimate foundation for driving long-term franchisee performance. Read on to discover how leading with intention—and a commitment to a continuous learning roadmap—can transform your entire business ecosystem.
Falling Into Franchising: Faizun’s Story
Doug Mark: Oh yeah, no, it’s lovely as well. You were one of my all-time favorite guests and favorite people to hang out with. Last time we got together, I said that you should have received an award for best dressed in franchising. I still stand by that statement. We have to revisit that again. But Faizun, you’ve coached hundreds of entrepreneurs. You’ve helped grow franchise brands. You’ve really kind of written the playbook on doing it the right way, but what… What in the world drew you into the franchising universe to begin with?
Faizun Kamal: What a lovely question, Doug, to get us started. What drew me into franchising? My story is probably not all that different, Doug, from many people who fell into franchising. Falling into franchising happened because I was in corporate America. I was in a very nice and shiny job that looked fabulous on the outside.
My glass office overlooked the park in downtown DC. Along with the title came all the perks, right? Everything from the outside looked fantastic. Yet it didn’t feel so fantastic on the inside. And it didn’t because it never felt like it was my path.
Ultimately, what really got me started on my path toward franchising was this deep abiding desire to be able to live life on my terms. Achieving that was never possible with any job that I had ever had. As one thing led to another, I fell headlong into franchising.
It was unbelievable to find that there was actually a vehicle in this country that genuinely allowed people from any background that you want to come from, right? Any creed, any color, any, it doesn’t matter if you had the desire. You could absolutely build a business that allowed you to live a life that you wanted to live on your terms. That’s what got me into franchising, my friend.
Franchise Opportunities for Every Financial Background
Doug Mark: I love that. It’s very impactful for me to hear this and I think for other people to hear that as well. You just said something that triggered something in my head, which is… are people of all financial backgrounds, do they all have the same sort of opportunity as well? Cause I, that’s the one thing I always think about is, you know what, this is great if you have the financial backing to sort of get into this space, but are there opportunities for people who maybe don’t have deep pockets or a 401k they can borrow off of or something like that?
Faizun Kamal: You know, so I’ll answer it for you in a bit of a nuanced way. So I think there is a minimum viable qualification that we look for, right? Viable qualification meaning financially. So a certain amount of liquidity, a certain net worth, and those two numbers vary by brand. So they vary from brand to brand. That said, there are many other brands out there—
Doug Mark: Yeah. Yeah.
Faizun Kamal: —that really don’t require such a large investment. There’s smaller businesses, smaller opportunities that you’re able to come into. The other piece to this, Doug, I think is, you know, I know the IFA has, I’m totally blanking on the name of the program they have, where it’s a bit of an incubator program. It allows people from different backgrounds to be able to avail franchise opportunities. That’s something that was unveiled maybe I think two years ago at this point. There are different programs out there.
So I will say broadly speaking, yes, there are. That said, this is where you have to get nuance because again, it depends on, well, what do you like to do? What do you want to do? And then relative to that, what kinds of opportunities are there that would be a match for you?
Exploring Diverse Franchise Models
Doug Mark: Yeah. Yeah, and I think that’s the part that I never truly understood. Now after taking more of the online courses, learning about programs like you just talked about by getting my CFE, it kind of opened my eyes to say, wow, there are so many different kinds of franchises, right? There are some that, yeah, you might not be able to get into it for less than $5 million after you’re talking about a brick-and-mortar buildout and things like that.
Faizun Kamal: Yeah. Yes. Yes, there are.
Doug Mark: But there are also opportunities where you can absolutely run them out of your home on just a laptop, right? I mean, I’m thinking about like, you know, let’s think about luxury travel planning franchises, right? When I think about that space, at the end of the day, I don’t need a brick-and-mortar office, you know, because I can do everything online. Yeah, and so again, smaller investment. So that’s…
Faizun Kamal: 100 percent. Yes, yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes.
Doug Mark: I think that’s the key thing to kind of understand too, as people who are maybe new to getting into franchising, that there are opportunities of all shapes and sizes. And if you have a deep desire to kind of work in that travel field, you can get into that for just a little bit of money. But if you want to open up a children’s learning center, then you’re going to need to, you know, there’s a lot more requirements and there’s brick-and-mortar and there’s restrictions. Yeah. Um, so I love that.
Faizun Kamal: 100%. Perfect.
Shattering the “Passive Income” Myth
Doug Mark: I don’t know if it’ll be my perfect segue, but I’m going to segue to this, is, you yourself, I think you bring this holistic human approach to growth. What’s something about franchising that most people probably do not understand?
Faizun Kamal: Hmm, that’s a great question. What is something about franchising that most people don’t understand? We still get a lot of clients who genuinely believe if they can find a robust franchise that meets whatever their criteria are, they don’t have to work at it too hard because it’s a franchise, right? It’ll do it for you.
Doug Mark: Right. That’s a big thing.
Faizun Kamal: It is one of the biggest myths, misunderstandings. I don’t know what to call it in franchising where there are a lot of people who say, well, I’m not starting this business on my own. This isn’t a startup. So if I’m paying into a brand and I’m paying them royalties every month, they’re doing it for me. Just, just, I don’t have to put a lot into it. That continues to be one of the most prevalent—
Doug Mark: It just works.
Faizun Kamal: —misperceptions, I think, about the industry and the kind of businesses that there are.
The Reality of Franchise Ownership Time Commitment
Doug Mark: Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. And I think that is a hard thing for people to kind of understand. I don’t know about you, but like, I’ve always felt like the first 10 years of being a franchisee… you’re going to be, I mean, at least the first couple of years, you’re really busting your butt, right? Like you’re learning every part about this business. And I feel like the first couple, you’re really trying to figure out how it all fits into place and how it works. And you’re going to work your tail off. I think that obviously the reward is there, but it’s not going to come after six months, year one, year two, right? I think you have to be invested for a little bit more than that. What do you think about that?
Faizun Kamal: Well, I think you’re right. I wouldn’t say it’s going to take you 10 years. If it’s a good robust brand, right, Doug? I think, yeah, it’s going to take you a couple of years. You know, something that I like to say to a lot of clients who are thinking about, you know, in the industry, what we refer to as semi-absentee businesses, right? Where you hire a manager and the manager does the day-to-day and it allows you to step off a little bit and, you know, do some other things as the owner.
Doug Mark: Yeah. A couple of years. Yeah.
Faizun Kamal: And I say, look guys, here’s the thing. Part-time effort, part-time result. Full-time effort, full-time result. This is simply, it’s physics. If you put in this much effort, what you’re gonna get out. This is just the way this works. Yes, when you hire a manager, when you start to build a team and put a team in place, it allows you to go do some other things related to the business, but now you have greater bandwidth. So you’re able to scale the business more effectively in perhaps a shorter amount of time than if it was just you trying to do whatever was needed.
Doug Mark: Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Unpleasant Industry Truths in Advertising
Faizun Kamal: Those things, again, this is not rocket science. If someone does not understand those pieces and simply think, I’ve thrown money at you, now you’re gonna get it all done for me, then I will tell you this is not the industry for them at all.
Doug Mark: Yeah. Yeah, I definitely think that a lot of people’s perception of franchising is in their mind, they see that as absentee ownership availability for me. I can buy this thing, someone else is going to run it, and it’s gonna make me a lot of money. Now there are opportunities that do have absentee owners, but it’s not most franchises. Most franchises the owner is heavily involved.
Faizun Kamal: Yes, yes, there are. There are a lot of semi-absentee franchises. Now here’s where you need to be very careful. This is something that I’ve talked about before. And we’ll probably, knowing you, we’ll probably get into this a little bit more as well.
There must be truth in advertising. We do ourselves as an industry an injustice, and we do our clients an injustice when we are not truthful about who we are and what we’re advertising. So if I am a franchisor and I know this stuff that I have, it’s a fabulous business, but you know what? You’ve got to be a full-time owner-operator because that’s what I did. Operating this business full-time was my exact path. That was my personal experience.
I ran the business full-time and it’s an astounding business and the results I’ve gotten are amazing. Yet, now that I’m a franchisor and I’m trying to get franchisees in, and I’m selling it as a semi-absentee business… We absolutely can do that. That happens, right? This is one of the unpleasant truths in the industry. I will not be shy about saying that. And so I think we need to be very careful.
Executing the Due Diligence and Validation Phase
Faizun Kamal: So when our clients, clients that come to the Franchise Pros, when we put them through due diligence, Doug, if we introduce them to semi-absentee franchises, this is an extra deeper layer of due diligence that we ask them to conduct. So for example—
Doug Mark: Yeah. Yeah.
Faizun Kamal: —as the client goes through the process and they enter the validation phase, as you know, validation is when the brand says, “Hey, Doug, you are now ready to talk to a couple of our franchisees that are in the system currently .” Here’s what I tell every single client. Every single client without fail, the entire team does this. When it’s wonderful. So Doug, you’re going through validation and the brand rep has given you these five names of people for you to talk to. Fab.
Here’s what I’d like you to do. You know, you’ve told me that—we actually just did this with a client—you’ve told me that this is a business that you’re gonna run with your wife. All right. And the both of you wanna run it for the first couple of years, slowly over time, put a team in place, and then, you know, kind of take a step back.
All right. You’ve also shared with me, you know, you have an elderly care situation at home. Having an aging parent requires you to be able to do certain things during the daytime, which means you’re not going to be available for the business.
Building a Franchisee Avatar
When you talk to the brand rep the next time, here’s what you want to do. Based on your personal situation, Doug, come up with an avatar of franchisees in the system. Now, likely you’re not going to get a mirror image, but could you get some franchisees that mirror some of those characteristics?
Doug Mark: Yeah.
Faizun Kamal: You know, it’s a franchisee, it’s a husband-wife couple. It’s a franchisee that, right, whatever those criteria are for you that you want to see, are there other people in their system right now that would look like you that seem to be knocking it out of the park because we want to talk to them. Here’s the other thing I tell our clients. If you want to keep it very simple, three levels: ask for top-performing franchisees, ask for a franchisee who’s doing well—
Doug Mark: Right. Yeah.
Faizun Kamal: —and absolutely ask for franchisees who are having a hard time. Every franchise system absolutely has them because a franchise system mimics society at large. There are going to be a couple of rock stars. A lot of people will be doing well, and then there’s going to be some that are just not making the cut. You want to talk to every single group because it gives you that much more of a real representative image of potentially what your experience might be like should you decide to move forward.
Going Beyond the Provided List
Doug Mark: Hmm. Has that spectrum. Yeah. I think there’s so much value in what you just said, because I’m thinking about that validation process where, like you said, maybe they’re going to get a list of five franchisees to call or reach out to, but they don’t have to just call those five franchisees. So you’re coaching them, which I think is awesome, to say, you know what?
That might not match the criteria that you’ve explained to me about yourself and your wife and your living situation. Let’s think about kind of going beyond what maybe the franchisor brand is presenting to you and asking them for some additional options to reach out to. Is there anything that prohibits a franchisee candidate from reaching out to any franchisee? I love it.
Faizun Kamal: Not at all. So by law, every franchisor is required to give you a copy of their FDD. What is at the end of that FDD? It’s a comprehensive list of all franchises in the system. So you could literally, if you wanted, if you are a candidate, you could literally go down the list A to Z. You could say, you know what, they have 120 franchises in their system. I’m going to call every single one of them.
Doug Mark: Yeah. Yeah. It’s going to take you a while, but yeah, I love that because I think, I think in a lot of different systems, you know, they’re going to get that list of three to five franchisees, right, to reach out to, and that’s all they’re going to do.
Faizun Kamal: It’s going to take a while, but yes.
Doug Mark: But I love the fact that you’re giving them that kind of hands-on coaching and say, let’s make sure it aligns with your goals and your values and your, you know, expectations. And I think that’s something that maybe not every consultant is out there kind of supporting their clients and saying, no, go make sure, you know, on your own, because at the end of the day, it’s really the franchisee that has to do that due diligence, right? They’ve got to be reaching out to those places, those other franchisees.
Why Candidates Say “No”: Fear vs. Trust
Faizun Kamal: Do you know that when, you know, I hear this from many consultants in the industry, they get the client all the way to the end, and the client says, “Yeah, no, no, thank you so much, but no”? And so it’s sort of that post-mortem. And here’s what I have found over the years: there’s almost always typically one of two reasons why a candidate that you have taken through the system is going to say no.
The Fear of the Unknown: The first reason that they will say no is that their fear of the unknown, their fear of what it’s going to take for them to be a franchise owner, that fear overshadows the excitement of starting down a new path. And as long as that fear continues to overshadow that excitement, they’re not gonna move. That’s part one.
A Lack of Transparency: The second reason that a candidate will not move forward, Doug, is very simply at different parts of the process, they felt something was being hidden. They did not feel that they were getting the true picture. They say, “Yeah, no, you know, this brand, they said I could only speak to these five people. And when I reached back out and I said, ‘Hey, I want to talk to some other franchisees,’ you know, they said whatever they said, but ultimately, I was never able to speak to anyone else. What are they hiding?”
Human Elements of Franchising
Doug Mark: Yep, that’s one. Mmm. Wow, yeah. Yeah, that speaks to the trust so much, right? Like, it’s so important to trust.
Faizun Kamal: Right? My friend, this amazing industry that we are in, it is one of the most human industries on the planet and yet we act like it’s not. It’s not just about SOPs and FDDs and ops manuals. Of course, those are important. But it’s fundamentally about the people that are coming into these systems, either as franchisors or as franchisees or in my small role as franchise consultant.
Doug Mark: No. Wow, that is, those are awesome nuggets. And I can’t wait to see what we turn that into a short as well, because I honestly like this—this is where the real value comes, right? It’s such a people-based business and it’s such a relationship-based business and that trust factor is massive. And the thing about trust is if it’s broken, it’s almost impossible to get back.
Faizun Kamal: It really is. I mean, think about it. Let’s not even go that far. Why did you and Cassie and I connect? Because shoot, I do nowhere near what you do. You have never done a day of client-based consulting in your life, right? We’re in the same industry, yes. But we occupy such very different places in the ecosystem.
Out of all the thousands of people that I saw at IFA, here we are. Almost two years later, here we are. We are still in touch. These things matter, Doug, because none of us are stupid. When we connect, we feel a bond, or we don’t. When we feel somebody’s coming to us in their full self, they’re OK with who they are.
Being completely fine with who they are allows them to present themselves to you. My god, what’s not to love?
Real Relationships and a Dysfunctional Family
Doug Mark: Yeah. Nope. Yeah. Yeah. I hope they can see the goosebumps on my arm right now. Yeah. It’s just, you know, hearing it from you and sort of revisiting when we first met each other… it’s like, we love working with people that we know are out there to do good. And out there in your case with your client’s best interest, not afraid to, you know, turn down an opportunity because it’s not in the best interest of your client.
And that is exactly who we are. And so we find ourselves gravitating towards people that we’re like, yeah, they think like us, right? Like that are actually thinking about what’s best for the client and that, yeah. Wow. And it’s the relationships we made, right? And these are extremely lucky. I, I, yeah, I’m…
Faizun Kamal: Exactly.
Doug Mark: And there’s so many people that are in this space that are built like us, right? That we’ve met along the way at trade shows and events and networking and that kind of thing. It is a massive… franchising is this weird, massive, sometimes dysfunctional family, right? We all have sort of the drunk uncle that shows up.
But there’s also these amazing bonds that feel a lot like a sibling or someone that you grew up with. And that’s what’s so special. So, wow, I love that. All right. Let me segue us because I think there’s—I’ll try my best, right? So there’s a big, big difference between, you know, growing fast and growing well. And I know you’ve seen firsthand, you know, what creates longevity in franchising, what lasts and what leads to kind of burnout. So let’s start with this: what do you think healthy franchise growth really looks like?
The Pillars of Healthy Franchise Growth
Faizun Kamal: Oof, I love that. I think healthy franchise growth is a number of different things, Doug, but I would say it probably boils down to maybe a handful of things.
1. Robust Unit Economics
The first, I will tell you, and this is from my experience and my perspective of the work that my team and I do turning businesses into franchise brands. And so when businesses come to us, I’ll tell you, one of the first things I look at is: what does your unit economics look like? Are you right now, Doug, a profitable business? And you’ll say whatever you’ll say.
Okay, so that’s what you’re doing top-line. Give me a sense of your net numbers. Once you’ve paid for everything, right, how much are you actually taking home? Because that starts to give me, without really knowing you at all, it starts to give me a sense of how efficiently are you running your business right now. So strong unit economics, robust unit economics, I would say is number one.
2. Crystal Clear, Differentiated Brand Positioning
Number two, I would say—and I feel this because I think there’s a part of me, part of my soul is a marketing soul, right? Yes, yes—brand positioning that is crystal clear and differentiated. So if you are a—I recently met a gentleman who has a window cleaning business, right?
Doug Mark: Yeah, me too, by the way. Okay.
Faizun Kamal: And so here’s the way I’d like to think about it: are there window cleaning franchises right now in the industry? Heck yeah, multiple, many of them. So if there’s one more brand that comes in and says, “This is what we do and we want to turn into a franchise,” one of the things that my team and I want to understand very clearly is, okay, well, what about you is so unique?
And I’ll rattle off some names, you know. These are some of the big names in the niche that you’re in. These are the people that you’re gonna go up against when you become a franchise. So can you tell me as the founder, what makes you so very different from the one that I just listed? Clear and differentiated brand positioning, right? Huge, I would say huge.
Doug Mark: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
3. Exceptional Franchisee Support
Faizun Kamal: As they get into it, right, particularly I’m talking about more emerging brands if you will, even in those early stages, the franchisee support that you are giving, is it exceptional? It can be good. I’m not interested in good. Are you providing exceptional franchisee support?
Because when you have a human being who has held your hand, the hand that you extended, they’re holding your hand, they have invested their life savings with you, likely, and they have now given you their promise that they’re going to spend the next five, seven, ten years of their lives using their life energy to build the footprint of your brand, and you’re telling me that you’re going to give them support that’s good? Good is not good enough. How are you providing exceptional franchisee support?
Doug Mark: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
4. Highly Selective Recruitment
Faizun Kamal: This goes hand in hand, Doug, I would say for a brand that’s looking to have purposeful, intentional growth: franchisee recruitment that is very selective. So kind of goes back again to the comment I made earlier. You’re a full-time owner-operator business, but you are selling yourself as a semi-absentee just so that you could get franchisees in the door.
Are you being selective about your franchisees? Not at all. Not at all, right? And this has dramatic and profound impacts on the health of the brand down the years, right? Are these people who believe in what you’re about? Is this a man or a woman who gets so freaking excited about window washing? God damn it, they need to be. And I’m not being facetious when I say this, they need to be absolutely fired up with whatever it is the hell you’re doing.
Doug Mark: Yeah. Probably not. Yeah. Yep, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
Faizun Kamal: Right. Are they going to be brand ambassadors? Will they love on you because you have loved on them, right? You know me well enough to know I use the word love all the time and some people think I’m crazy, which is fine, because I actually am a crazy.
But isn’t it all about love? Isn’t it about the love that we’re putting in our business? Isn’t it about the love that we show our franchisees? Because they are our brand ambassadors, right?
5. Scalable Operational Systems
As the system grows and matures, looking at your operational systems—and this goes into the heart, into the very bones of the business. What kind of systems do you have in place? You know, a franchise is all about the SOPs. We talk about this all the time, right? It’s a business in a box. What are those SOPs like?
But very importantly, your systems, when you are at 10 franchisees, cannot be the same system when you’re at 50 franchisees. And most brands, most new brands don’t understand that. Is there scalability in your operational systems as you scale?
Doug Mark: He struggled to scale.
6. Leadership and Vision
Faizun Kamal: Um, so I think that’s maybe four or five of these. I’ll say the last one, which I think is if you want to think of it as the—the one that I just described, Doug, if you think of them as pillars of the house, what undergirds, what is the foundation of the house is the leadership and the vision. Who’s the leader? You’re the CEO founder. Okay, you’re the leader. What’s your vision like? You’re leading it now.
How are you implementing it? Who are the people that you have surrounded yourself with? Who are your franchisees and who’s your leadership team? So I would say in a nutshell, those would be a couple of the things that I think if a brand is looking for purposeful, intentional growth, take a moment and think about these different aspects because they will serve you really well.
Doug Mark: Okay, yeah. And lead with love.
Faizun Kamal: Lead with love. Because if you lead with any other way, all you need to do is look around the world we live in now, my friend. When you don’t lead with love, you see what happens. And when you do lead with love, we also see what happens.
Doug Mark: We also see what happens. Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. How about the sort of opposite side of that question, which is, where do franchisors often go wrong in sort of the early-stage growth?
Where Early-Stage Franchisors Go Wrong
Scaling Too Fast Without Infrastructure
Faizun Kamal: Yeah. Gosh, how much time do we have to talk about this one? It’s such a wonderful question.
The first one that I see far too often, and it’s a painful one: brands that are scaling too fast without proper infrastructure, right? Without proper infrastructure.
Doug Mark: Right. There’s a lot of that right now, isn’t there? Yeah. Yeah.
Faizun Kamal: Unfortunately, there is, right? So you are so aggressively focused on bringing in franchisees, yet you have not paid attention as the franchisor. Once I bring these franchisees in, who’s supporting them? Is it just you? Because it can just be you.
There’s only one of you. Are you over time, as you are building your franchisee base, are you on the internal side hiring appropriately? Do you have franchise coaches? Do you have an ops manager? Do you have somebody that your franchisees look to as that first line of support, because it can’t continue to be the founder himself or herself. That’s a really big one. I mean, think about the points I addressed in the first question and to flip it on its head.
Recruiting the Wrong Franchisees
Selling to the wrong Zs. You are bringing in just all the wrong franchisees. You are selling left, right, and center. You’re paying no attention to who you are and what your brand is about, right? Not only are you bringing in the incorrect, the wrong franchisees, you don’t have a franchisee success roadmap once they get in because you don’t have an infrastructure.
Doug Mark: Problems. Right.
Underestimating Risk (Financial and Compliance)
Faizun Kamal: Underestimating, this is a big one. This is a big one for new brands. Underestimating risk. Think about it. Here’s what I mean. And risk, I would say, falls in a number of different categories, but I’ll talk about two in particular: legal risk, financial risk.
So you don’t have—unfortunately, again, I meet a lot of founders. They’re super eager to franchise. They’re super eager to become the next McDonald’s, if you will. Well, in order to create something of scale, you must have a little bit of a treasury.
Doug Mark: Give me a… Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep.
Faizun Kamal: What are you dipping into, right? And if you are thinking as a founder that you can bootstrap your way to growth… I haven’t seen it done very successfully ever. So I’m a little hesitant to say, well, you can do that, right? So again, what financial resources do you have in place? So underestimating the financials required to be able to scale correctly—that’s a big one.
A second risk, Doug, I would say, the piece around compliance. The moment you become a franchise, you are entering into a highly regulated industry. Do you have appropriate representation? Do you have somebody on retainer? Do you have somebody who provides you with sound legal counsel, particularly if you’re on a tear to grow? You underestimate any one of those two risks, you’re gone like that. You will not survive. That’s a huge one.
Right?
Doug Mark: Yeah, it’s massive.
The Nuanced Role of Private Equity in Franchising
Doug Mark: It prompted me to ask a question about something that may get us—maybe get us both in trouble here, but I’m going to ask it anyways and just see where it lands, and we can cut it if we need to cut it. Like, I think something new in the franchise world that I’ve noticed in the past couple of years, and I’ve seen it maybe done well and not done well, has been the introduction of private equity into franchising.
And I think there are some brands that are leveraging private equity and they’re just driving the numbers to get to a hundred units. That, just… they don’t even, you know what I mean? They’ve got—they might be at 60 units now, but they’ve got like 107 sold and they’re really… that number, that sort of… see this magic number of a hundred as being like… I don’t know if that’s set up by the private equity team, is that their original goal or? You know, what kind of role does private equity have in franchising today? Is it good? Is it bad? What’s your thoughts on it? This is why we might get in trouble.
Faizun Kamal: Please. Sounds good. No, I don’t—first of all, no, I don’t think we would nor should we, because I think it’s a very salient point given what we’ve seen in our industry of late. I’m of the mindset that private equity is what you make of it. I think it’s sort of the—what’s the name of the Greek god that has the two faces? Janus, right? So there’s a Greek god.
Doug Mark: Yeah. Good thing you got that idea. I wasn’t getting that one by the way.
The Two Faces of Private Equity
Faizun Kamal: Okay, all right, that’s all. It’s all good. It’s all good. Private equity has two faces, right? So I think there are many examples that we can find of private equity infusion that led to ABC brand having massive growth, growth beyond their wildest dreams. Now, you hear that, you read about that, right? These little sexy sound bites. What we typically don’t see is the pain and the sweat and the toil and the tears that happened on the inside in order to be able to get to that stage.
I think it’s also fundamentally important to understand agendas. If you are the founder and you are courting private equity, what’s your agenda for doing that? Because be very clear, any PE company that comes in and says, “We would love to acquire you,” they’re not doing that because they love you so much. They’re not doing that because they’re your wealthy uncle or aunt. There’s a very specific reason they’re doing that.
And in order for them to be able to accomplish what they want to do, they’re going to implement some changes that you may not like at all. That will have downstream effects, right? So I think it’s a very nuanced conversation.
Doug Mark: Yeah. Right.
Discerning if PE is Right for Your Brand
Faizun Kamal: Right? It’s a look. I personally think the fact that there is a private equity play in franchising, I personally think it’s freaking fabulous because it gives opportunities to brands that are poised just right. Do I believe private equity right for every brand that wants to grow like bonkers? Absolutely not. Yeah.
Doug Mark: Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s what I was sort of driving at as well is it’s just not the right model for all franchisors. And it’s new, and it’s sort of new in our industry, right? It hasn’t been, and so everybody is sort of getting educated on private equity’s role in franchising and all trying to figure, yeah. Which I’m trying to do is just learn about it as much as possible. So.
Faizun Kamal: Absolutely. No, it’s not. Yes. I look, I will tell you 100%, 100%. There are resources within the industry. A very good friend of mine—anytime I want to learn anything PE-related, I will look her up. I will look at her articles. I have her book, Alicia Miller, in case people want to know. Yes, she’s my girl.
Doug Mark: Yeah, yeah, yeah, met her at FranCamp. She’s great.
Faizun Kamal: Okay. So, right, so there are, if somebody wants to go down that path, educate yourself first, right? Ultimately, that’s really what this comes down to: educate yourself. Reach out to the Alicia Millers of the world. Reach out to people who, right, who know way more than you and I do. Get their perspective, get an understanding. See if this is even right for you.
Doug Mark: Yeah. I agree. Yeah. Yep. I love this because we’re talking about educate yourself, right? Like, and I think we need to put a link to Alicia Miller’s book, certainly, and maybe her LinkedIn account as well from this. Yeah, right? And it’s in, like you mentioned, it’s about sort of educating yourself on the things that maybe you don’t understand as well.
Continuous Learning: Shifting the Training Mindset
Faizun Kamal: It’s a fantastic book. Yes. Yes.
Doug Mark: So, perfect segue this time. So we hear franchisors talk about training as something that they do before they launch. But I think you’ve made this case that there’s a sort of a continuous foundation for training. Why is that kind of mind shift so critical to say, hey, it’s not just for launch, it’s ongoing continuous training that we need to be providing?
Faizun Kamal: You know, it’s interesting. And when I say this to clients, I can tell they’re unhappy, but it’s the truth. You know, we do the work we do and we put together the franchise model, right? And so one of the things that we put together for clients is their ops and training manual. And I see clients losing their minds because it has to be perfect.
And so there typically comes a point where I’ll have the conversation where I’ll say, “Doug, we are now on version 595 of this ops manual. Here’s the thing, my dear. Understand that your ops and training manual that you have in place today as a brand that is getting ready to go to market as a franchise… that ops and training manual will be obsolete by the end of year two, if not sooner.”
Doug Mark: Yeah. Well played by the way. Obsolete. Yeah.
Why the Ops Manual Evolves
Faizun Kamal: Right? Why? Now, why is that important? Well, with every year as a brand grows and they’re bringing in new franchisees, they might be adding new products, they might be adding new services, they might be opening in new markets and territories that they were not before.
The overall legal landscape might have shifted in a way where it impacts the business. And that leads to some real direct changes in how they operate their business. So much can happen.
And so for you as a franchisor to think what I have today is going to be exactly the same three, five, seven, 10 years from now… right? And so it’s in that same mindset, it’s in that same vein when you talk about training, right? So the training that you give in year one to your first 12 franchisees… if you are going to provide the same exact training in year two to the next set of franchisees coming in… I mean, sure, some of it might remain the same, but are you telling me that absolutely nothing has changed, which means you have not grown as a brand?
Doug Mark: Yeah. Right. Have we not learned anything that could improve the sort of onboarding process? Yeah. Yeah, that’s a great point.
Faizun Kamal: Anything that could rough? It’s right? I mean, it’s kaizen. It’s continuous learning, right. The Japanese gave us that. It’s a wonderful concept because the moment you say, “I know everything, I’m done learning,” that’s the moment that you become—that you’re dead.
Doug Mark: It is. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect soundbite. Love that. My goodness. So what happens to a brand when they under-invest in training? Are there, you know, some obvious warning signs that we’re going to see maybe at the operator’s level or it could be, you know, at the franchisor level, but are there warning signs?
Warning Signs of Under-Investing in Training
Faizun Kamal: Yeah, I think there are. I think—I know, I don’t think, I know—by the time the warning signs come down the pike, you are already a little bit too late. These are things that should have been flagged in the system earlier. In fact, earlier this week, I had a conversation. It’s, we all know this brand and they changed hands, they changed ownership, right? So there was an acquisition.
Doug Mark: Yeah. Yeah.
Case Study: Post-Acquisition Rebellion
Faizun Kamal: We just talked about PE, so there was an acquisition. And here’s what they found: pre-acquisition, the franchisees they had, they had gone through training and they were running their business. However they were running their business, there wasn’t a lot of oversight or standardization.
Post-acquisition, PE comes in. They’re looking to optimize every little bit out of the brand. They’re getting ready to recruit. They’re getting ready to pump a lot of resources into the brand because they’re getting them ready for their next sale.
This is their agenda. And so they came in and they implemented training. They implemented new expectations. And guess what? The existing franchisees saw almost a rebellion. “We did not sign up for this. This is how we’ve been running our business all this time. What do you mean? Now we have to do it completely differently?”
Doug Mark: Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Faizun Kamal: “You’re telling me I have to learn? I have to do what I’ve been doing differently?” I don’t want to do that. And so you have—these are the kinds of things. Now, this is a brand that had been around for—this particular brand—for at least 30 years. This is not by any means a young brand. So what I’m saying, Doug, is… issues typically when you start to… when you start to kind of go back, when you reverse engineer and try and understand where the issue stems from, it does not matter how old or young the brand is.
Root Causes of Operational Friction
They will typically stem from a couple of the same places. There was no clear expectation or guideline. When you come in as a franchisee, “Here’s what we expect you to do.” People ran around, they ran businesses. And by the way, these are successful franchisees. It’s the crazy part.
Doug Mark: No. Right. Yeah. Successful then and now, but like somehow before without the structure.
Faizun Kamal: “We were making money” and so—without the structure, right? So these are the kinds of things that now at this late stage in the game, the brand is having to grapple with. Established, well-established, successful franchisees that are saying, “I’m not open to doing things differently just because you got acquired, why does that impact me?”
So a whole host of issues can stem from that. But yes, again, think about it: continuous learning, continuous training. “Hey guys, here’s what’s coming down the pike. We are constantly learning. We are constantly trying to be better. Just because you’ve done things one way for a long time does not mean that you don’t have to change. Look around you. The world is changing. You want to stay competitive? We’ve got to do the same, right? Whatever those things are.”
Embracing the AI Era and Evolution
Doug Mark: Right. Yeah. Yeah, we’re living through this phase right now of our lives—you know, years before it was sort of the dot com, we’re living through this AI era, right? Right now. And this, in a lot of ways, you know, there are some tools out there that…
Faizun Kamal: Yes, yes, we’re good.
Doug Mark: I think of them as sort of a friend in my pocket, right? Can they make my email sound a little bit more polished? Can they create a marketing plan for me? Can they generate an image or maybe a fun marketing video and that kind of thing? And so it kind of speaks to that notion of, you, you’re evolving, right?
You’re constantly evolving and growing and always learning. And they’re going to be tools that are actually going to free up a bunch of your time, but you have to be open to the change and accepting them and working with them and learning new methods to do things. And I think that being sort of open-minded, right, to realize that the manual doesn’t have to be perfect, right?
It’s on version 527. And this is a group that you just talked about that’s been in business for 30 years and they were successful, but… by making some changes, could they be more successful? Can they actually increase the unit level economics by following better systems at the end of the day? And I think you’re proving that they can, but they’ve got to be open-minded to change.
Unlocking Independence, Not Just Compliance
Doug Mark: So Faizun, you’re an advocate for empowering franchisees, not just, you know, managing them. And I think systems play a big role in that. How can franchisors create systems that like, you know, unlock independence, not just compliance?
Faizun Kamal: Oh, that’s such a good one. Independence and not just compliance. You know, Doug, it really boils… it goes all the way back to the beginning. So when you are as a brand recruiting franchisees, do you know who your ideal avatar is? Right?
Doug Mark: For sure. Yeah. I didn’t know when we started out, so I learned that. Yeah.
Faizun Kamal: Right. So identifying the ideal person to come into your system. Is this somebody who’s going to be compliant? Is this also somebody who is so compliant that there’s no original thought whatsoever?
Is this somebody who can toggle between being independent, making decisions fast because that’s what an entrepreneur does, but at the same time being mindful that they are within a system and they need—whatever they’re doing, they need to stay within the bounds of that system. I really believe it goes all the way back to the beginning in how you’re recruiting and who you’re recruiting into your system. That’s number one. That said, once they’re in the system—you may have heard me say this before—clarity is kindness.
The Cruelty of Ambiguity
When you are crystal clear about your expectations in whatever the relationship is, Doug, I believe that is one of the highest forms of being kind. That’s a personal value of mine. Whatever you do in life, you must be kind. And in business relationships, particularly in a franchisor-franchisee relationship, if you don’t have clarity, you are being cruel to your franchisees.
They have come in, they’re expecting a certain something. But you have never been clear about what it is you expect. And so they’re flailing around all over the place. And then down the road, you’re bringing the hammer down on them.
“Doug, you didn’t do this. Doug, you didn’t do that .” And Doug says, “I didn’t know I was supposed to do this .” Clarity is kindness.
Doug Mark: My CEO, Dave Wilcox, is going to absolutely love this segment. He’s always talking to us about our communications that we make internally as well, and how important it is that we make sure that clarity is understood in each message that we send. Clarity and consistency in our language is a big thing for him. So yeah, gosh, I love that.
Rapid-Fire Q&A
Doug Mark: A couple of quick rapid-fire questions. What’s one lesson every new franchisor needs to hear?
Faizun Kamal: Please. What a good one. It’s not about you. It was never about you. It’s about the people that you exist to serve.
Doug Mark: Hmm. Exist to serve. That’s perfect. Is there a myth about franchising you wish more people would let go of?
Faizun Kamal: Goes back to what we talked about earlier. I mean, it’s a franchise, right? “I don’t have to do anything. It’s all going to be handed to me on a platter .” It’s a big myth. It’s a big myth. Exactly. That’s right.
Doug Mark: Right. Yeah. Yeah. On day one, I’m just making bank, right? Like, yeah, yeah, that is a big myth. I agree. Yeah.
The other myth—I was just thinking about this one myself. I’m answering the question I asked you. That’s always fun as we’re doing an interview, but I think the myth is that like either… I used to make this comment, like franchising is not the F-word, right?
So I… because I think it has this negative connotation and I think people hear, they use the word chain restaurant or chain business, you know? And I think this has this negative connotation. And I think what really—one of those things I wish everybody knew about franchising is franchisees are just small business owners.
Faizun Kamal: Hmm. Yes. Yes, they are. I love that. Yes.
Doug Mark: Right? Like they’re, they’re at the end of the day, these are these kids… you know, their kids play soccer with your kids on the weekends. You know what I mean? They’re not McDonald’s corporate, right? Like they’re, they’re not, you know, Arby’s and Chick-fil-A.
They’re, they’re a small business owner that really was close to being an entrepreneur, but they didn’t want to be in business by themselves. Right? Like, yeah. So crazy. All right. These two are going to be really quick. Favorite leadership book or business philosophy?
Faizun Kamal: That’s exactly right. Exactly right. Yeah. Hmm. The Alchemist. It’s not a business book. It’s not considered a business book. It’s a life book. Yeah.
Doug Mark: All right. No, it sure is. It’s a short, easy read with an amazing lesson. Yeah. My goodness. All right. This is going to be my favorite question to ask you because you have had an amazing journey in business and life in lots of different things. What’s your proudest moment in your journey so far? Let’s call it the proudest moment in your business journey so far.
Manifesting the Future
Faizun Kamal: With a massive message. Ugh. You know, my proudest moment, Doug, it’s the same moment and I will never get tired of reliving it. When the client—whether it’s a client that we placed in a franchise as a franchisee or an entrepreneur whose business we turned into a franchise—when these clients call me, they text me, they email me, they send a picture.
The message is: “Franchising has changed my life. I’ve been a franchisee in the ABC franchise that you placed me in for the past three years. I am at the dinner table surrounded by my family every afternoon at 5 p.m. I never imagined that this was going to be my life.”
Right?
Or the franchisor that pings me a picture of their second or the third or their 10th Discovery Day. “Faizun, here are the prospects. Here are the people who are considering coming into the brand .” It’s a moment of… my friend, if you know me, you know I’m all about manifestation.
And perhaps the biggest thing that I bring to our clients—because we have such a wonderful team that does the work, and I do a very small part of it, so I think that the biggest thing that I bring to our clients—is helping them dream of a future that they are not yet brave enough to dream for themselves. That’s where I’ll leave it at.
Doug Mark: I don’t even want to ask another question. Let’s end it on that. It’s so good. So for all of you at home that have not read this, please go read The Right Franchise for You. This is a book that I think is awesome for anybody, maybe on their journey to their CFE, that’s considering franchising their business or becoming a franchisee.
And what I love about it is it’s a book of stories, real-life stories and experiences that Faizun has had in her life that she crafted into a book that is really enjoyable to read. I encourage everybody to go get it.
Faizun, thank you so much. This has really been phenomenal. For those who want to reach out to you and work with you, maybe grab your book, explore coaching, where should they go to find you?
Faizun Kamal: LinkedIn, I think, continues to be the best. And I think I may have said this to you, Doug, apparently there’s only one Faizun Kamal on the LinkedIn platform. So I think I am not that difficult to find. Connect with me there, right? I’m always happy to reach out and connect and have a conversation.
Doug Mark: Tracks. I love that. We’ll make sure we put it up on, you know, as a logo as well. So, hey, this has been a really powerful conversation, you know, filled with me getting goosebumps along the way. And I can feel the love and the care that you have for your business and your family and your friends and people who are in your orbit.
And I’m just glad that we’re a part of that as well. So if anybody wants to learn more, please connect with Faizun on LinkedIn. Thank you so much, everybody.
Faizun Kamal: That was awesome. Absolutely. Take care, bye now.
About the Author
Doug Mark is the CEO of LearningZen and host of The Training Effect podcast. He works with franchise organizations to design scalable learning systems, franchise onboarding programs, and training strategies that improve operational consistency and franchisee performance.
